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Welcome to the Inside Insight podcast presented by CR Solutions. At Consolidated Risk Solutions, we are taking our expert knowledge of the insurance world and using it to innovate the industry using technology, groundbreaking thinking and a personal touch. Join us as we talk to masterminds both inside and outside of CR Solutions about how the world of insurance is changing, and how we can be sure to grow along with it. If you have to manage insurance in your work, then you can benefit from the interviews, conversations and insights we’ll be exploring to elevate your business’s success.

INTRO (00:42 – 04:40)

Trevor Casey: [Music], we’re back with another guest.

Beau Lunceford: I wonder when people listen to this. Do they go, that’s what I’m listening for? I’m listening for the musical interludes and the outbursts by these two guys, or are they really here for the innovation of the construction space.

Trevor Casey: They’re here to hear American Idol before he is the idol.

Beau Lunceford: That’s what it is. That’s what it is. I am very excited about this episode, because I think that this is one of the episodes that helps us to branch out into this new sector that we’re covering here, which is just innovation, that we’re talking today with Brad Ruffkess, who is the CEO and Founder of a company called BoxLock Inc. and this conversation is so cool. Like, we’ve said before, there is passion and there is excitement, and there is ingenuity. In Brad and in this company that he has, and the way they are transforming the safety, the risk management, the protection of a of a job site. And all of that is so important. So it’s gonna be so fun this conversation, I can’t wait for you to hear it.

Trevor Casey: One of the things that I think is just super cool about this product is that it really evolved from something that was going to be sold residentially to a consumer. And he developed and said, “Hey, listen, there’s a grander scale that we can use this for.” He saw a problem in the construction and insurance space and said, “Hey, I have a product that can solve that issue. Let’s implement it”. And the loss is that people are seeing on their products or in their project sites is decreased dramatically due to this product. So I think people are going to eat up what he has to say. And he really doesn’t just talk about theft, but he talks about what it means for a job site.

Beau Lunceford: Well, let me tell you a little bit about who Brad is. Brad Ruffkess, like I said, is the CEO and Founder of BoxLock Inc. This is a supply chain access control platform that helps leading contractors and industrial distributors make their operations more efficient, accountable and reliable wherever assets are stored and transferred. Now, Brad himself, he is a high energy leader with a proven ability to build brands and business. He’s a results oriented and analytical thinker who brings vision strategy and execution expertise to drive growth. Brad taught himself to program in the late 80s. Think about what that would had to have been like programming in the 80s and he studied Computer Science at Tulane University. Brad spent nearly a decade in various leadership roles at the Coca Cola Company including leading marketing features founding the Coca Cola media CO and Global Director of Connection Planning and Social Strategy. This man has done it all. Prior to joining the Coca Cola Company, Brad was the Director of Digital Strategy at Merge Agency, a North Highland company, Brad started his professional career at VIG Engineering Group, a leading bridge design and engineering firm, where he helped build a leading edge collaboration and document management solution that was recognized by Nielsen Norman Group as one of the top 10 internets of 2003. Think about where you were in 2003. This is the kind of ingenuity that this guy has, that he’s shaking the space.

Trevor Casey: You don’t want to know where I was in 2003.

Beau Lunceford: You know what, that’s fair. And I think I’ll stay in the dark on that one. The man has been everywhere and done everything like and I think that you’ll hear that in this conversation that you’ll hear that he is an everywhere guy. His brain is bigger than his head, and it just oozes out of him just like this intelligence and this ingenuity, this innovation like all those buzzwords, Brad’s got it.

Trevor Casey: Well, let’s not delay this anymore. Let’s listen to what Brad has to say.

Beau Lunceford: Let’s do it.

Trevor Casey: Well, let’s go.


Interview (04:42 – 34:21)

Trevor Casey: Welcome back, everybody to another episode of the Inside Insight podcast. We are excited to be with Brad Ruffkess today of BoxLock. How are you, Brad?

Brad Ruffkess: I’m doing great, Trevor. Thanks for having me.

Trevor Casey: Thank you so much for being a part of the podcast today. One of the really cool things about this podcast is we get to learn about so many cool innovative products and thought design and just thought provoking things that are out there. And BoxLock is one of the things that Josh talks about a lot lately to bone AI about all the great innovations that you guys have going. So thank you so much for taking the time.

Beau Lunceford: So to kick things off, Brad, I would love to be able to share with people a little bit about your background, where you come from, what your history is in, to kind of like lay the foundation for who BoxLock is what you guys are doing. And the amazing stuff you guys have going on in your space.

Brad Ruffkess: Yeah, cool. Happy to give some background in there. And by the way, I was saying earlier congrats on you guys are doing a great job with this podcast. I’m really fortunate to be on. So I grew up in Tampa, taught myself how to program at a really young age. And went to college went to study a two lane computer science. It kind of late 90s started my first startup out of that. And somehow after school, I found myself in Tallahassee, Florida working for a company for a firm that built large concrete segmental bridges. And in doing so, I had the opportunity to do some really kind of leading bleeding edge document management, and collaboration work working with contractors. I was at the architecture for an engineering firm, and then the Department of Transportation’s in there. And so I did that for about six years, 2003, 2004 collapsed on a tarmac at Dover Air Force Base, getting off a corporate jet, shattered the orbital bone in my eye, and chipped a vertebrae. And I kind of took a step back after doing so I was fine. No surgery, I took a step back. And I was like, “All right, what am I doing?” I had no intent of being in architecture, engineering construction. And I kind of looked at what I thought my career trajectory was. And I was like, “All right, I need experience working for either with or for Fortune 500 companies.” And so I moved to Atlanta, I started working, I took an agency route, worked on kind of digital business strategy on the agency side working for Fortune 500. And then I went and I spent eight or nine years inside the Coca Cola Company leading marketing strategy and planning on some of their larger properties, really working on partnerships. And in 2017, my wife and I had moved and I sort of was faced with a problem around porch piracy and trying to figure out what we were going to do with all the stuff that we got delivered. And I had all the insights from the work I was doing at Coke on sort of what was happening with ecommerce trends, etc. And so in 2017, I left and I started BoxLock is a company focused on small parcel residential deliveries, kind of bring that full circle to what we’re doing today and where our focus is. We got a lot of visibility and awareness around it. And we started having different leaders in different organizations coming to us with very well formed problems typically in supply chain and saying, “Hey, I’ve got a problem. We’re trying to find a solution for it. I can quantify the problem. I think your technology is uniquely suited to be able to help solve that.” And so it gave us sort of these opportunities to go after building out a technology platform that was meaning and enterprise solutions that focused around sort of the correlation between supply chain and access control.

Trevor Casey: That’s super cool. So kind of like looking through your website. Now, in the construction space, it looks like so you started with the parcels and protecting from the theft. And now you’ve kind of transitioned more into like products that somebody already owns, tracking the device and making sure it’s not stolen. Like, if I had a drill, I checked that drill out. I go do my job and I don’t take it home and say, I don’t know what happened to it.

Brad Ruffkess: So we break our business down into kind of two different target sets, and then the use cases underneath those. And so we do work with industrial distributors. The industrial distribution work is we do work with caterpillar dealers, plumbing distributors, roofing distributors, that’s kind of broken into when they go pick up goods. If it’s a cat dealer, it’s at the dealership, they’re picking up parts to service. And then we also do job site delivery work. Think about really tough job sites where it’s hard to be able to deliver to, you’ve got lots of you got the GC, you’ve got lots of subs and trades there. And if you’re trying to get small parcel deliveries onto those mega projects, who are you handing it to? It gets delivered. Well, I delivered it to Bob. Well, who does Bob worked for? What trailer did Bob put it in? Where is it? And so the last thing you want to do is take that project off schedule, off budget, have labor sitting around or sort of waiting for something. And so industrial distributors will do jobsite deliveries for. And then the other sides on the contractors, we do it to traditional access control. We’ve got some really cool products that are partnering with the tool manufacturers, we do work with Hilty, DeWalt, and Milwaukee integrating into their tool tracking systems, and tracking tools and materials in there, which is really was our sort of foray into understanding kind of the construction space and making sure those tools are where they need to be when they’re supposed to be there.

Trevor Casey: So when we’re talking tool and asset tracking, are you attaching something to like a drill where it has a GPS steward? Or is this really like you said a product for a caterpillar bucket or something where it needs to be a larger thing? What is there or is there not really a differentiation, if it’s an asset you want to track it, it’s being trapped?

Brad Ruffkess: So the tool manufacturers, and then they’re sort of third parties that make them as well, they make these small Bluetooth tags. And those tags can be affixed to anything. And so some of the tool manufacturers build those into their tools. And then also sell individual tags and trackers that can be put on anything. And so it really works sort of agnostic to what the asset is. In there, we typically find high value materials they’re tagging, to make sure they know where those are high value tools they’re tagging, so they know where those are. And then we also do some work on sort of min, max, because we have a barcode scanner on the device, where we’re able to do check in checkout, or replenish kind of restock on it. So

Trevor Casey: So as far as the replenish question that just made me think of something so does the scanner or tracking system actually track the use of the tool, and It then calculates like the life of the tool based on its usage? And so it knows, “Hey, this thing’s no longer safe, because it’s the blades been used for too long it needs to be replaced”, is that something that’s integrated in there?

Brad Ruffkess: No. So we’re really, if you think about our devices they work with this, we integrate with the tool tracking platforms. But so like, if I just take DeWalt as an example. DeWalt were there, or Milwaukee were there, they’ve got the Bluetooth sensor embedded in the tool. They’re tracking kickback, they’re tracking usage. We’re maybe uploading that information back, so that it can end up in their systems. So they can get that information. If you think about a Bluetooth tag, you either need a gateway to be able, you need some gateway to be able to upload information from a Bluetooth tag. Well, those gateways, oftentimes, like sometimes their cell phones, but then you’re dependent on having an app installed on the phone, you’re dependent on the worker willing to install that app on their phone and willing to give it access to upload the information. And so oftentimes, you’ll find gateways that are deployed. Our lock also plays the gateway. And so in particular, when you’re sitting out on a job site, and it’s on a convex box, or a gang box or tool crib that you’re storing tools in, you could put an independent gateway in there. But you’re going to need to secure it. And so in securing it, we’re both the access control, and the gateway to be able to upload that information to the cloud.

Trevor Casey: That’s insanely cool. I have to say and the fact like I had no idea that my DeWalt drill that I have sitting over there has any kind of Bluetooth device that they may be tracking usage on, that’s insane. Like, it’s not something you’d think of he may be an Apple iPhone, I may think of not just my power drill. That’s so cool. One thing that I also saw on BoxLock is that you guys have systems that have to do with access control in that there is like breaking detection. So if somebody wanted to lock up, like you said, a storage box with hundreds of 1000s of dollars of tools, there’s a system that you have that monitors the safety on that. Can you tell me a little more about that?

Brad Ruffkess: So if you think about the device, and what’s in the device, it’s a cellular connected device. And so it’s able to upload data to the cloud from just about anywhere. It has a GPS sensor in the device, it’s got that Bluetooth gateway in there, a barcode scanner, and then we’ve got the ability to do intrusion detection. And so if you think about like we had a client come to us and say, “Hey, we’re are pull trailers, they’re popping off the GPS tracker off the back of it, they’re moving it a mile away, and then they’re unloading.” They’re taking the stuff out of it. And when I looked at said, Could we be using your device as both a security device and the GPS sensor on it. And so what we’ve done is we’ve taken much like you’d arm your home alarm, let’s say, I get a text message that has my access code on it. If that same access code, and that same barcode has an option where I can click on and say, I want to arm, I’m no longer going to use it for the day, I’m going to leave, I want to arm it. And so what it does is you scan that code, when the device is closed, it puts it into alarm mode, it then takes the GPS coordinates of where that device physically is at the current time. And it changes the sensitivity on the device, so that if it moves at all, if someone rustles it, it will trigger the accelerometer, look at where it is and determine whether or not it should trigger an alarm. With a triggers and alarm because it’s a cellular connected device, it will text whoever armed it asking them is, “Are you really trying, is this really some type of an intrusion attempt or, are you really pulling this thing?” So they can disarm it. It also can notify a network operation center. So if you’ve got a job site where it’s sitting that has cameras on it. You could have the security company be looking at the security cameras at the same time. Sure, they’ll look at it, and then they can determine what action they want to take is that ignore this, is that notify the appropriate authorities, is that call, go deploy dispatch on-prem security, etc. And so it’s a really cool feature. And they’re kind of leveraging technology in the device.

Trevor Casey: And I know this might be going like way out of left field. But something you said with that just made me think so if somebody wanted to, let’s say, they’re building something out in BFE, and they have to drive two hours to get there and they set these things up. Could they set that to alert a security system company that’s 30 minutes out? And they say, “All right, those people, you have the power to send police, you have the power to do whatever, they have some of that in there as well.”

Brad Ruffkess: Absolutely. So they can determine where those notifications are sent to. We can automatically set it to kind of call 911. I think there’s a bit of a cry wolf in there that you just want some human eyes, probably to kind of monitor what’s happening and make a determination on it. We do provide active monitoring solutions with those and so on sort of different service levels. And so we can be that are their security company can kind of use other data signals to make that determination.

Trevor Casey: So are there any places that BoxLock just says, “Listen, your market is just, it’s too much for us and we’re out of it, or you guys really just open to any market to dive into New York construction California construction?”

Brad Ruffkess: I mean, we’re across the US. We’re on some of the most complicated job sites out there. So were our technologies being used on LAX for job site delivery were being used up in kind of the Boston area solar sites out in Arizona and Chicago. And so it’s really across the US, I think we’re very limited deployments outside the US.

Trevor Casey: Very cool. Brad, another thing that is really cool that I see that you guys are getting into is the lockout tagout system, can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Brad Ruffkess: Yes, we started increasingly, we were looking at tool tracking, we were looking at security applications and inventory management. And what we found is that our customers were increasingly using our devices on the safety side of things. And as you start thinking about whether it’s an area, that’s a roped off area that you don’t want someone going into, and sort of where they’re providing manned security at those points, or they’ve got issues people going in, like we’re starting because we do have so much data coming in, we’ve been doing more work on the safety side. And so what we had is a number of our customers come to us and started talking about lockout tagout applications in there. And for those that don’t know in the lockout tagout space, it’s really focused on sort of, is this de-energized? Is this been de-energized, and is someone working on it? And what you don’t want to happen is you think about it in the house, you go upstairs and I turned off the breaker, I’m gonna go replace this outlet, and wife comes in right behind you and says, “Oh well, the toaster isn’t working.” Let me go turn back on the outlet. And next thing you’re standing there with a pretty good shock on it. And so same kind of thing. So in the OSHA lockout tagout space, it’s really focused on like, “Has this been de-energized? Is someone working on it?” If so, don’t turn it back on. And that can be electrical, that can be gas and that can be anything that’s pressurize, etc. And what they’re doing is they’re each worker is bringing a small lock, that’s not really a security apparatus if locking it out. And then they’re putting a tag on it, those tags need to be recorded, and you need to make sure it’s kind of one person’s on it and locked in. And that one person can remove their lock and then it can be reenergized. If you have two people or three people working on it, you don’t want one person taking their lock off. And then someone had two more locks are there. And so you’re using physical locks to do it. There’s also no recording around it. And so what we’ve done is, we’ve built a solution that uses a single lock is able to put multiple actors onto a single lock, all of the lock-ons, lock-offs, tagout are all recorded in real time along with all the other data you get from our system in our platform. But it won’t unlock until all of the locks “Had been removed.” And so it’s full accountability on there. Oftentimes, you’ll find that like, “Oh, I forgot to take my lock off. And I’m 20 miles away 30 miles away, whoever the GC or the foreman, whoever’s in charge, you need to come back to take your lock off.” And some places they’re very careful about the documentation around cutting them etc. And so what we’re able to do is have them be able to account that they’re no longer at that location that they have the consent to having their lock removed, you’ve got a full digital record of it. And then it can also integrate back into the construction management platform that they’re using to tie into the inspections and the completion of the tasks of the inspection in there. And so it’s really robust. We’re really excited about it. And there’s a lot of value in sort of digitizing this process, be able to provide that data around it. And we’re kind of uniquely qualified to be able to do that with something that’s truly connected not dependent on a cellular device.

Trevor Casey: Wow. That is really cool. One of the things that I’m just curious about with that is, so if you’re number one, you’re worker one, I’m worker two and Beau worker three, do we have to check out of that thing in order 1, 2, 3? Or, can I check out, you check out and then he checks out? There’s no order to it. It’s just all like it’s just tracking who’s using it, who’s in there. And if I drive away, I can send my cellular code and it’s some locks.

Brad Ruffkess: Yeah, it really depends on the business logic right on the client side in terms of the contractor side in terms of how they want to implement it. And so for one organization, it may be I don’t care the orders everybody as long as everybody’s off, it’s fine. You may have another organization says, you know what, I only want the project manager to be able to read the form and to be the one that actually removes the lock. And so we’ve built it. And so that you could have two quality control guy, the quality control people can check out, but they can’t actually open the device. But it can be role based in terms of who then has access to open that device. But they can’t open the device unless those other QC roles or all the other roles are off.

Trevor Casey: So there’s a hierarchy more or less within the locks that up. Correct me if I’m wrong, you’re saying it can that hierarchy can be amended based on the need of the owner of the lock?

Brad Ruffkess: That’s correct, or the operator. And so there could be things like is there employee badge that opens it, it also could be the work order. It also could be the all clear, it could be the certification of the inspection completed on the work is the tag that actually opens it. And so it really depends on how they want to implement it. What our team does is we go in, and we’ll work with them and trying to basically map back to what their existing business processes are, and be able to implement through that workflow.

Trevor Casey: This is all incredibly unique. And I think a lot of people are going to find so much value in listening to this podcast. But the one thing I think that a lot of people are probably asking themselves is, this is all great and wonderful, but can it connect to the system that I already have? Can I extract that data and put it into the solution that I’m using for X, Y, and Z? And is that some viewers have API’s is their back end connection? How does your data share?

Brad Ruffkess: So we built the platform from the API first. And so we took it, and basically said, let us go string these things together based on what our customers business needs were. And then we built the front ends based on sort of customer need for it. And so on our website, the documentation is available for the API’s. We have existing integrations with Procore. And working on others, we’ve gotten an integration with Zapier online. So someone can actually build sort of Wiziwig drag and drop workflow editing that has the ability to integrate into 1000s of tools, whether it’s smart Sheets, Google Sheets, other messaging platforms, etc. And then we’ve got the core integrations with DeWalt Hilty is on track, and Milwaukee wonky.

Trevor Casey: As Beau would say, I love all those words. Here in Procore, Zapier, DeWalt, like, you’re just saying big keywords right now that are in the industry that a lot of people are listening and saying, “Wow, I use that.” And that’s my big construction software, or “Hey, I have a huge contract with them for tools.” And I think hearing those names is going to add a lot of comfort to people who may never have heard of BoxLock prior to their introduction to you. So that’s incredible to hear.

Beau Lunceford: Speaking of big words that we like to hear, one of the things that I feel like is woven throughout this is that if someone is using your products, it’s going to impact their bottom line in a really important way. So the kind of things that people are losing or can’t keep track of or don’t have access to appropriately man hours patients are all going to be covered by using this product. So do you have by chance any statistics on clients of yours that have been able to say my bottom line has been really impacted by implementing the use of BoxLock on our job sites?

Brad Ruffkess: So we’ve got customers who are large contractors that are realizing double digit ROI based off of the leakage they were having on materials on the site. So we base everything we do in ROI, our devices are typically $1 to $2 per day and sort of SaaS software on it. And so we look at the problems where we can solve where it’s, “Hey, can I save you a cup of coffee a day which is pretty easy to do.” And when you look at it, whether it’s on top I’m on budget, are you having workers that are waiting for things that don’t have work to do? And so you’re pushing that out and you’re wasting labor costs on the risk side of things as we go look at the costs associated with going back and looking at saying, “Hey, do I have manual logs on these things? Did I not have any logs on these things? Can I prove, or do I have any insight on sort of what occurred?” And then a lot of it is really just helping to guide accountability towards like, did they actually follow that process? And if you put steps in place that make them complete those processes, they’re going to be more likely to do them reliably and successfully. So we base everything we’re doing and being able to deliver significantly higher ROI than what we’re currently doing. And we’ll work with the customers to help them better understand what are they doing? What’s the cost savings associated with that?

Beau Lunceford: And I think that it also should be stated that there is no price tag you can put on peace of mind of the amount of hours that you lose of sleep at night, wondering if all of your stuff is safe, if it’s where it’s supposed to be, if you’re doing things as efficiently as you could be. I think all of this just adds into that experience that you guys provide with your product.

Brad Ruffkess: Look, at the end of the day, the most important thing that you can deliver is yourself home safely at the end of the day.

Beau Lunceford: We have said that before and we will say it again. That is a common theme on this podcast.

Brad Ruffkess: And so we want to make sure that that’s not the case too. And so that’s why we’re really excited about sort of the potential around the safety product and the work we’re doing on the safety side. It keeps people more focused. It gives documentation around kind of what’s happening, and hopefully you’re able to take preventive measures off of that data if you see that a process isn’t working.

Beau Lunceford: Brad, this conversation has been just amazing. We talk a lot about the new and emerging things that are going on in the risk management, in the construction, in the insurance world. And I think that this was just a whole new category of information, the stuff that we’ve talked about. So is there anything else that you want to make sure that our listeners hear that they take away from today?

Brad Ruffkess: Yeah. I mean, I think, look, we’re continuing to build technologies based off of customer need and iterate them and refine them and bring them to market. The risk space is an area where we see a ton of untapped potential in there. And now, I look forward to continuing to following you guys on the podcast and finding opportunities to work together.

Beau Lunceford: Well, thanks, Brad. We really enjoyed having you. So before we sign off, Brad, where can people find you? How can they get more information about BoxLock and the stuff that you guys are doing?

Brad Ruffkess: Yeah, so our website is There’s plenty of information there. Definitely reach out and connect with either me or a member of the team there. We’re also both personally and the company active on known, so you can find us there, follow us and engage with us, and then we’re working on making more content available on YouTube, whether it’s the trade shows we’re going to or whether it’s just demos and kind of walk through the product. So, yeah, best starting place, probably Reach out and get connected with the team.

Beau Lunceford: Fantastic. And we will include all of those links in the show notes so that everyone has easy access to you, to free demos on the website, anything like that that they might need. So, Brad, thanks again for being a part of this. This has just been so cool to hear more about. Trevor, thanks for really driving the ship on this. This is definitely something that it’s really clear people are going to want to hear more about. So let’s wrap this up. Thank you again, Brad. And we will see you guys next time on the Inside Insight podcast.

Trevor Casey: Thanks, Brad.

Brad Ruffkess: Awesome. Thanks, guys.


OUTRO (35:11 – 38:02)

Beau Lunceford: I wonder if they’re going to end up taking that and using it as a part of their new promotion.

Trevor Casey: Marketing campaign, baby.

Beau Lunceford: Yeah. Well, I mean, Brad knows marketing. That’s part of his history. So I bet he’s going to hear that whenever we send this to him. He’s going to go, you know what? That Trevor Casey, I need him in a recording studio just cranking out jingles for me.

Trevor Casey: Holler at me. Brad, wow. That was incredible. To see the innovation that your company and that this companies and these products are coming out with is just, I’m speechless. One of the things that I think is really wild about that, I didn’t know that you could track a drill. Every drill can be tracked.

Beau Lunceford: Yeah. And the ways that they have incorporated that into already existing systems and then develop new systems outside of that to make it more efficient. These guys are really changing the game for, I don’t know, I want to say safety, but it’s not necessarily people safety as much as it is stuff safety.

Trevor Casey: I mean, financial safety. There it is in reality because you’re not having to rebuy stuff and you’re making sure that your project is locked down. And I think that’s really important for some of these projects that are out in really the middle of nowhere. It takes people a long time to get there to these developments. And knowing that, hey, I have the ability to secure my job site digitally and confirm all of those controls in place. And if I don’t want to pay for necessarily a security guard, because that risk might not be there, I have the option to have all of these other devices in place and I can call the police, I can send a notice to a security guard, a project manager to resolve whatever the issue may have. So I think it’s really cool to see what these products are, but the future of what they will be integrated with, I think is what’s going to be really cool to see in the next couple of years.

Beau Lunceford: What BoxLock is doing is it’s impacting the bottom line of these projects.

Trevor Casey: Absolutely.

Beau Lunceford: It’s keeping claims from having to get filed, it’s keeping materials from disappearing. Overall, it’s saving money. If you guys are interested in finding out more about BoxLock or connecting with Brad, I highly recommend you check out the links that are in the show notes. All the information is there. Touch base with Brad. He is a wealth of knowledge and just a really great guy to know. So check out that information, reach out to him, make that connection and check out and see what BoxLock is doing and could do for you and your company, your industry, your job site. I think that’s it for us though. So let’s go ahead and wrap it up, guys. We will see you next time on the next episode of the Inside Insight podcast.

Trevor Casey: Stay covered.



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